Former governor of Abia State and chieftain of the All
Progressives Congress (APC), Dr. Orji Uzor Kalu in an interview monitored on
AIT yesterday, bared his mind on his conversation with the IPOB leader, Nnamdi
Kanu, when he visited him in Kuje prison, the chances of APC in the forthcoming
Anambra elections as well as other leadership issues in Nigeria.
Let
me start this way, you said Biafra is not possible why did you say so?
Let me correct you I said there is no need for
it now. Because dividing the country would be a mistake. What matters is for
people to live under the rule of law, social justice, and under true
federalism. I don’t think the clamour to separate the country is anything that
would help anybody. What majority of Nigerians not only the Igbo people need is
to obey the law. If a court in Abia gives an order that order must be obeyed if
another court in Benin gives an order that order must be obeyed.
If I Orji Kalu drives against traffic light
and I am caught I should be punished. What the country is looking for is one
rule for everybody.
There
is this Federal Government and IPOB face off, you are a member of the ruling
party and you are an Igbo leader, do you see yourself brokering truce
between them?
To correct you I am an Igbo man from Igbo land
not an Igbo leader.
(Cuts
in ) Really ?
Yes . We have been doing a lot to broker truce
between them , we have done a lot underground , we have been talking to both
parties that is why you can see some level of peace now in Abia and Onitsha
axis where the IPOB have a stronghold .I believe all parties are interested in
finding a common ground . The people that said that they want to separate are
not very strong they are very weak. My only concern is that they are
endangering the lives of a lot of Igbo because when they go to confront the
military or when they are confronted by the military the goods been damaged are
owned by Igbo and the people being killed are Igbo. I am a trader and I trade
on cash crops and all the rest, so I know what I have suffered in the last nine
months or there about due to this issue .
You
were the first Igbo leader or Igbo man as you like to put it, if you get where
I am going, to visit Nnamdi Kanu in prison?
(Cuts in ) Yes I was the first Nigerian man to
visit him because it was the right thing to do. Because nobody wanted to see
him, everybody was afraid to see him. They were scared to identify with him. As
for me I am not afraid of death I am not afraid of anybody. He was remanded in
prison by court of competent jurisdiction and a court of record. Even the UN
charter recognises that anyone remanded in prison by an official court can be
visited by anybody so I applied that wisdom to myself.
I want to guess that part of the things you
would have told Kanu while in prison was to drop the idea of IPOB. Maybe you
did not sound convincing enough.
No! I spent two hours 10 minutes with Nnamdi
Kanu and I sounded very convincing, at some point he was here and there and
then later on he said ‘we can’t drop this fight we have gone very far,’ and I reminded
him that a good general is a general that fights and goes back to fight another
day, while a worse one is the one that dies in the battle .
I not only visited him I went out of my way
and to go as far as visiting his both parents. I talked to them I gave them
reasons why they should not encourage him to continue in this manner but he
(Kanu) refused. When he came out of prison he didn’t make any attempt to visit
those who wished him well he went for those who wanted to play politics with
him and that is where we are. They have been shouting Biafra nobody touched
them, but because the issue went beyond where it was supposed to be, government
had to respond.
People who wanted to use them to play politics
were telling them that everything is possible and they got him into trouble. I
have nothing against those clamouring that they want Biafra; in fact it is
their constitutional right. I can never tell anybody not to agitate. But the
question is; is it possible? Is it within the norms of our constitution?
The constitution is very clear, there is nowhere in the constitution where we
have provisions on how to divide the country. The constitution has chapters on
how to unite the country, but nowhere can you find referendum or restructuring.
To me all these calls and the people making
the calls could go back to the 2014 conference report . Since that conference
was bipartisan and headed by a very good jurist, Justice Idris Kutugi , we
should find a way of getting the recommendations implemented as a starting point
and giving the South- East one more state, as was recommended.
There
is this story that Kanu’s whereabouts is unknown can I quote you that he is in
London, since you said so?
I didn’t say categorically that he was in
London, go and read what I told The Punch newspaper. When I returned from the
United States of America on the 14th of September and on the 15th I went
straight to Abia because the thing was escalating then. I consulted some of
them (IPOB) I consulted the security agencies, the army, the police, SSS and
the rest of them and I tried to douse the tension.
I started looking for Kanu himself to talk to
him. So somebody told me he went to a hotel and I sent people to the hotel and
I called one of his relations who came to my house and I asked him where Kanu
was, that I really want to talk to him. He said that I should not bother myself
and I told The Punch all that transpired including the fact that I was not sure
whether the fellow was telling me lies or truth. I said it and it’s in the
paper. I didn’t say I discussed with Kanu and he told me he had left for
London. His relation told me I should not bother about his safety because I
told him that what matters to me is the safety of the man. I wanted to bring
the man to my house in Igbere and make arrangements with the federal
authorities and persuade them for us to find a common ground.
I never wanted the security agents to bundle
him and rough handle him, I only wanted to bring him to my house and wade into
the matter, which was what I did when he was in prison. I am suprised at the
attitude of Kanu because he knew all the things we discussed; he neglected them
because he wanted to play politics. Let me ask you; is it fair on the court
that gave him bail? Is it fair on the federal government of Nigeria that the
orders of court were being disobeyed? That order was not that of Justice
Nyako at all, it was the law of Nigeria. These are things I reminded him that
he must obey our laws.
In 2007 the same court gave me a condition to
gain my freedom, it’s not a criminal case but I accepted those conditions and
if I wanted to challenge those conditions I would move to an appellate court
where justices of the court of appeal will look at and review the conditions.
So I will continue to blame our elders, our friends
and my people who are saying his human rights have been tampered with, I
disagree because the court is of competent jurisdiction that order was not that
of Buhari, it was not that of chief of army staff, neither was it of the
director of the SSS or anybody it was the order of a court of competent
jurisdiction. So he could have mellowed down and obeyed that order and allow
his members to continue carrying their flag rather than disobeying that order.
But when you set off to molest people on the
road , people are afraid to say the truth I’m not afraid of death or a anybody
you know me from my university days I’m still the same person, I don’t care
what anybody says what matters most to me is justice being applied where it is
supposed to be applied . If Kanu had gone ahead to obey that court order-he was
asked not to appear in a public of more than10 persons and the 2nd in command
would be the one carrying their Biafra flag nobody would touch him because he
was not given any order by the court. If Kanu wanted to see people then
they should come to his house and see him but what he did which you saw all
over social media was mounting a Guard of Honour, insulting everybody, he
insulted The Sun newspapers, he insulted the owner of Sun newspapers, he insulted
me personally that some were writing against him and that they were been bought
over by Hausa/Fulani people and Yoruba people. How can you run a republic when
you are not in good terms with the Yoruba? You’re not in good terms with Hausa,
the Ijaws and other tribes, so who will you be in good terms with? The issue is
that he should purge himself of those needless biases and come to terms with
the realities of today.
Is
the South East truly marginalised?
Yes! The South- east is marginalised. I can
tell you this. I am trained by Hausa/Fulani people, but I am not afraid of
speaking the truth. Since the end of the civil war, the treatment meted on the
south-east is different. The amenities given to people from the south-east are
different. If anyone says anything contrary bring him on to this your
programme and I will tell him why we are marginalised.
What
can the present government do about this?
The present government should look at
appointments; they should look at who gets what and balance it. It doesn’t
sound good that you have service chiefs with none from the south-east. No
matter who is the president, vice president or senate president and you should
have at least one Igbo among the service chiefs. Whatever is worth doing is
worth doing well.
As a
member of the APC, have you been making some moves to achieve what you just
said?
Yes, of course I’ve been making various moves.
A
school of thought suggests that you are already selling Igbo because you are in
APC now?
What do you mean I don’t understand.
Any issue that comes up regarding the Igbo,
your opinion usually aligns with that of the federal government.
It’s
not true, I have never agreed with anybody. I speak what I know is the truth.
Would any Igbo man with integrity like a court order to be disobeyed? Would you
like the orders of a court to be flouted? Would you like that?
No I would not
When you refuse listen to a court of justice
the only thing you should expect is chaos. I can never be bought by anybody,
money cannot buy me. I was governor for eight years with Obasanjo as president;
if I wanted to be bought over I could have been bought over to support the
third term agenda. So my loyalty and everything lies solely to the Nigerian
people. It’s not ethnic. Remember I was a students’ union president. I was
voted by over 99 and half percent of Muslim students, they were not Igbo
people. They saw the truth in me and that truth is what I am still holding on
to till date. The cross I am carrying is the truth. I mean, sell who for what?
What are they going to give me? Truth is, most of the Igbo leaders are afraid
of speaking the truth. They cannot continue to keep quiet .Yes I believe we are
marginalised I don’t hide it, but I also believe that we can build a better
country.
To be continued on Monday
Tags
Sun News